though I have no Authority whatsoever, I have decide to create a challenge:
Rules:

• No Cars! even the horse carriage mod!
  No electronics except pinball, stove, and fridge.
  No lights either
  cannot get job, must make living off of novels, paintings, and astronomy
  No university, downtown, vacation spot etc...
  No mods
  no cheats
  2 sims, married, man and woman, TO BEGIN with, you may have children
  1 room, 'log cabin'
  any personality, zodiac, or aspiration
  no indoor plumbing excpet a tub, a sink, and a toilet, 1 only of each
  live 5x5 lot
  scoring:
  start with 0 points
  good: earn 1,000$ 10 pts
  earn 10,000$ 50pts
  earn 100,000$ 100pts
  die of old age 10 pts per sim, 30pts if both die of old age
  lifetime aspiraton 1000 pts
  Bad: repo man -50pts
  die of something other than old age -20 per sim, -50 if both die of not old age
  turn into werewolf (pets only) -100 pts
  abducted by aliens -500 pts
  therapist -500pts

questions should be pm'd to me

Why would there be no children? I always thought the Amish were known for having quite a lot of children, because they need lots of free farmhands, or whatever people's logic was when they still did that.

Also, wouldn't it be more logical if the Amish lived on farming, and selling their crops in their own OFB shop, than Astronomy?

Why would it be a 1-room log cabin? I've been to Amish country in PA and they have a lot of rooms in their house, some live in quite huge farms and have two-story houses. They also have horse-carriages. And like what other people said, the Amish people have A LOT of children and they do make a huge profit by farming and also sometimes making their own crafts (such as by knitting their own quilts I saw once) to sell in their store.

how are we gonna write a novel without a computer? and why do the Amish need a pinball machine?

Yeah I live quite close to Amish PA and even though I'm not in Lancaster very often the Amish are known for having large familys and they most certainly don't live in log cabins, what gave you that idea?

I like the premise though

Log cabins, historically, when amish people were normal people, those out on the frontier had to do with a log cabin. alos it makes it alittle bit trickier. sorry, i forgot novels were on computers, and I only own Pets and NL with CB stuff pack, so I didn't know about the fariming, also No owning business except farming. you can make money from astronomy becuase after a while with the fartsar e3 it'll say 'you have discovered a previously unknown star, you recieve 500$ from sim astronomy club' or something like that. pinball machines are mechanical, not electronic, or at least some of them are.

"When Amish people were normal people..." When did they cease to be normal?

Sorry, just putting that out there.

I like the idea behind the idea, but I think it needs a little polishing. It's beginning to sound like you're trying for more of a historic challenge, not an Amish challenge.

When pioneers in general (not just the Amish) first began populating the West, one-room log cabins were common, but I do believe that they expanded them as resources became more plentiful. Couldn't we use candles for lighting? That's what they used in the early settlers' period. Horses and wagons/buggies were actually the mode of transportation for pioneers (you don't think they WALKED from the East Coast to... say, Oregon?)

Now an Amish challenge might be to include a subhood or area in the main hood designated as 'Amish country', which would envelope many of the characteristics of the Amish people, including: dress, horse-and-buggies, separation from the 'normal' job market (farming, sewing, etc.), distancing from modern technology, relative containment within their own community... and then try to maintain that lifestyle for x amount of generations.

i did not mean to offend amish people, i meant when there customs/technology/views were what all people throughout the US believed, not that amish were 'altered' in any way. I sorta meant for this to be historic too, but but who likes 'history challenge'? It sounds like something you'd get in a 6th grade social studies project. I meant no transportation via car, and I know ther was a horse and cart mod out there.1 room houses sound hard and add a little bit of challenge to the challenge.

I like this idea a lot, we just need to tweak it and test it out is all, I think.
It sounds interesting, I'm going to definitely give it a go!
We all just need to give it a lotta love and suggestions to make it perfect!

How about calling it the Back in the Day Challenge?
I think that's the direction you want this challenge to go, correct me if I'm wrong.
I understand the no cars thing, even if they did go travel it would be a long journey. This probably emphasizes on the country folks, who lived very spread out from civilization, and relied mainly on family bonding, pretty much opposite from today!
Definitely no electronics! I think even the pinball machine should be banned. Before all those fancy gadgets, families played board games (hacky sack or pillow fights, anyone?), and most sims gain fun by playing chess, painting, or piano too! We cant have our simmies rely on technology! They need to experience life their forefathers lived!
I think the hardest aspect of this challenge is going to be the no job way of life. Sounds exciting! I think that maybe they can have computers, but only for the sole purpose of writing novels, kind of like the apocalypse challenge.
Or they can always paint or search for stars, or even farm if they have the expansion pack, for simaloans.
No mods or cheating! 'Nough said.
Hmm, I don't understand what you mean right here:
?
Clarify?'
But I do agree with everyone else on the children issue. The more kids=the more potential bacon they can bring in for the family! However, that also means the more trouble with the kiddies. Bwahaha!
Extended families is a must, again, more money they can rake in, and stay-at-home nannies for the children--for free! I think it should be required that family sticks together no matter what, until grimmy gets them that is. Nobody is allowed to move out?
The log cabin idea is interesting, I'm not sure either way on that. How would that work? The bathroom, where they sleep, kitchen? Not too sure, I'll read for a bit to understand that idea a bit more.
Yep, I agree-- it doesn't matter what personality, aspiration, zodiac, turn-ons and offs for this challenge in my opinion.
Ha haa only one bathroom for a big family definitely sounds interesting! That's a great idea, and you should stick to it. Challenging, but that's what challenges are all about!
Not too sure about the lot, that's not my area of expertise
And I think scoring we all need to fix and mend together as we test out this challenge. It needs to be more precise and maybe little extras and other good and bad points available for this challenge. Let's all help out with beefing up the scoring card!

I think this looks very promising, but I'm brand new, so what do I know. I think the major issue is the scoring, you just need to actually sit down and figure out that step by step, as you test it out. What could go bad and what is challenging to achieve in this challenge? These are all my opinions, listen to your gut and just go for it! I'm merely giving suggestions to help out.
Good luck, and I'll keep my eyes on this thread for any changes or to hear anyone else s ideas or suggestions. I'm going to try this baby out this weekend if I get around to it!
Thanks for the interesting and exciting-looking challenge! I look forward to trying it!

Well, I used to be rather friendly with a rather more outgoing Amish family when I lived back East, and after my divorce even flirted with the idea of withdrawing from the world and living this sort of life...so I have some input, if you really want to make this scenario as "Amish" as possible. First of all, there are Old Order Amish (more strict) and New Order Amish (More liberal), but since this is a challenge, we'll go more Old Order. So:

Why would you restrict horse-and-carriage travel? That IS how the Amish get around, mostly. True, the current mod doesn't include a traditional Amish buggy, but...

Some Amish DO have jobs, usually with other Amish families or Amish-owned businesses. They don't ALL live off the land. Many are extraordinary craftsman in our world of pre-fab and disposable planned obsolescence. They build incredible furniture and wooden toys. (The dad of the family I knew made an exquisite ornately-carved rocking crib for my son while I was pregnant with him and gave it to me as a birth gift, which is tradition in Amish communities; it will be our family's heirloom.) They make gorgeous quilts, bake truly yummy pies, and make knives and metal farm implements (like plow blades, for instance). They make root beer. They do all sorts of things besides (or in addition to) farming. Crafts and such are usually sold from their homes or barns, either to other Amish or to outsiders, for those willing to deal with outsiders. Amish children will make and sell lemonade and other juices, including apple cider. Girls and women will tend fantastic flower gardens and will sometimes make and sell bouquets on the spot for you, if they are outsider-friendly. (The oldest daughter of the family that I knew grew and made my wedding bouquet, although they do not do wedding bouquets themselves.) Oh! Many are also avid dog breeders. Really, they are prime candidates for all sorts of home businesses, if you have OFB. Lots of really creative things could be done with this scenario to make an isolated yet self-sufficient community.

Most Amish do not have any problem with indoor plumbing. Some have wells, but generally they will tend to collect rainwater in cisterns and use pumps (steam, propane, or sometimes gasoline-powered) to circulate water through the house's plumbing. The amount of water they have depends on how much rain falls, though, so they are quite frugal with it and many homes will have outhouse "backups" in case of lack of water.

Their homes are usually quite large, often at least 4 bedrooms. They don't usually have basements (Because of difficulty making them without, you know, backhoes) but do often have small root cellars. Houses usually have at least two bathrooms. They generally have wood flooring throughout, with handmade area rugs, usually the "braided" kind. Some have stone or ceramic tile in bathrooms/kitchens; linoleum probably wouldn't be in the proper "spirit." Carpeting would generally be frowned-upon. Walls are mostly plain white, but they will use brightly-colored paints on trim, wainscoting, and cabinets and such.

The Amish will readily use SMALL machines that are steam, propane, or kerosene powered. Some are even OK with gasoline, and such families will use a gasoline generator to run the pumps to provide running water in their houses, particularly if propane is not readily available in their area. Electricity is generally frowned on, though, and most won't use power tools. But they have kerosene oil lamps, kerosene heaters, etc., and also propane-powered appliances like stoves and fridges. I've seen them using gasoline-powered weed-whackers on occasion. Of course, candles could be used for lighting as well...although the Amish that I knew said that they aren't often used, in favor of oil lamps. (Less expensive, less smoke, more light.) Computers, TVs, electronic entertainment (including pinball machines! ), cell phones...pretty much all definitely no-nos, although I have heard of Amish using cell phones/pagers, oddly enough.

Some will use landline phones, BUT if they do, they are usually kept in a small outbuilding (like a phone booth) not inside the house, in the spirit of separation from the world, and many will use them only to make outgoing calls, and will not accept incoming ones.

Things they wouldn't have: Curtains and pictures. Paintings are arguably OK, but photographs would be a definite no-no. (They take the commandment about graven images very seriously! ) Really, most purely "decorative" things outside of plants would be heavily frowned-upon, in fact. They aren't called "plain people" for nothing. Most things in an Amish house have a functional purpose, though they can also be decorated nicely but not garishly.

In terms of the Sims' appearance: I know there is Amish clothing and headwear available for downloading. All married men should have beards (but no mustaches!) and all females child age and up should have their hair pinned up under white linen prayer caps. (I'm pretty sure I've seen this in CC here and there.)

So...yeah. My input. I played an isolated/isolationist religious community (though not specifically Amish) once. It was rather fun, actually.

ok, i gotta know, why no curtains? i mean, even no plain simply functional ones? i mean not even necessarrily to block light entirely cause i guess they might get up with the sun and "real"curtains might prevent that, but curtains to keep folk from accidentally seeing incidental nekkedidity?

not even then?

i dont want to be amish if thats how it is. i like it that in my neighborhood the neighbors have curtains.

Nope, no curtains. I don't know why, really. Never asked. And maybe this varies from community to community, too. I only had contact with a family in Pennsylvania, and the PA Amish, so far as I knew/saw, don't do curtains.

They will use blinds, though! Blinds aren't very pretty, but they get the job done. I don't think the Amish worry too much about peeping Toms, though. And their houses are generally set pretty far back from the road, so it's not like people can see as they go by.

I live in Wayne County Ohio. The county to the south, Holmes, has the largest Amish population in the country.

I have seen a few drive cars. It depends on the district.

I also knew someone who helped install a car battery into an Amish teen's buggy for a car stereo, go figure....

The real Old-Order types are Swartzentrubers, to give an example. These guys are reluctant to put reflectors on their buggies.

Yeah, as I understand it, the rules vary by community and, in terms of what technology is or isn't acceptable, can change (by vote) when they have their communion meetings twice a year. It's why some will use cell phones and some won't, for instance. So, the rules definitely vary from community to community. Plus, on a larger scale, rules will vary between Old Order and New Order.

Hah! Funny! In the family I knew, their sewing machine was powered with a car battery. Strange, but it worked! When it ran down, they'd get a new battery. I guess it's justifiable since batteries are a self-contained power source not requiring link-up to the power grid, thus not requiring a literal connection to the outside world. Which as I understand it is the general reason that electricity is frowned on. The point is to separate themselves from the world and dependence on it, not really to be "primitive." Which is why some will generate electricity with water, wind, solar, or diesel/coal/gasoline generator power, but it generally won't be used to power things like radios, computers, or TVs, as those are a connection to the world. But...Well, I guess not for that teen and his buggy stereo! :D

Now that you mention it, I know that most will ride in cars and trains. If someone's having a heart attack, most don't get the horse and buggy out; they call an ambulance. The family I knew had an orchard, and every Saturday they would take the train to Philadelphia to sell their organic fruit at a farmer's market there. So for this, if one wanted to make an "Amish" Sim community, carpools and taxis would actually be pretty OK, if they're being used to go to work or a business, not to go on a pleasure outing or something. But I can't say that I've seen any Amish driving cars.

Oh! And you could have teens do their Rumspringa, the time when the rules are relaxed for them and they decide whether to stay in the community or leave it for the world. Then they could date, wear "worldly" (but still conservative) clothes, go Downtown, etc. And then maybe you could roll to see if they stay or go. (To the Sim Bin, in this case. )

Also, as an addendum to my first post: I forgot that unmarried Amish women wear black prayer caps; only married women wear white ones. And Amish men always wear hats. Straw ones in the summer, wool felt in the winter.

Also also, were one to make this Amish and one follows wants/LTWs when playing, I'd disallow the Pleasure and Romance aspirations; they and their LTWs don't really mesh well with a realistic Amish lifestyle. Or, I suppose if you roll for aspiration and get a Romance or Pleasure teen, you might automatically ship them out of the community and into the Sim Bin, because they'd likely decide not to stay with it. Or, it might be fun to play this as a neighborhood with an attached sub-hood. Then those who leave the Amish community can be played in the non-Amish 'hood.

Geez, thinking about all this is really making me want to try to make an actual Amish Sim community. I think I might add it to my BACC when I get a second business district...

I know, I was thinking about adding an Amish Sim County to Pleasantview, just because it'd be such an interesting change of pace!

Sounds like fun, but the rules need some work. I'm already doing something similar in my game with a farming family.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna do it, so now I'm really motivated to get me a second Business Tycoon in my BACC to get a second business district. *laughs* Now to hunt for the necessary CC...

I've done farmers in my game, and I've done religious isolationists, but I've not done "genuine" Amish. I think it'll be fun to try to pull it off.

Also: Inge's various school hacks would be ideal for this. Amish do schooling in one-room schoolhouses that are run by a female teacher. They only formally educate to eighth grade, so I'd say that teens shouldn't be going to school once they're like two days into teenhood...

Amish also do not build/use churches. All religious services are held in someone's home, every other Sunday. (The "off" Sunday is used to visit with friends/relatives and otherwise relax. No "work" is allowed.) This could be simulated by having one family invite a boatload of other people over for an "outing," especially if you have a "bigger parties" hack.

Hmm. Good to know. I do love Inge's school hacks, even if I don't make use of them very often. If you find any good links for Amish-style clothing, could you let us know?

Will do.

We have two versions of an Amish beard here at MTS (just search "amish" in the Downloads section) - one full, which I am intending to use for the adult/elder males, and that's just close along the jawline, which I think is going to be for the teen males. I'm not having much luck Googling for clothings or the women's prayer caps - but then again, I tend to haunt the same three or four sites with brief forays into the larger world for meshes.

T$R (*cue scary music!*) has an "Amish set" of clothing/hair here: http://www.thesimsresource.com/down...mish/id/184494/

It's a free set, but old so not excessively pretty. ("Painted on" suspenders for the guys, anyone? ) The prayer cap (white only) is passable, but the female clothing is not very Amish-looking at all, and the shoes are all wrong. (But I understand that available meshes are limited, probably especially so at the time.) The MTS beards are way better than the one in this set, which isn't surprising since they're newer.

Hmmmm...I'm thinking something could be done with some of the meshes at All About Style and/or Parsimonious, if I can find something that is full-skirted, loose-fitting, and somewhere between knee- and ankle-length and/or can figure out how to modify meshes to make an existing mesh work. I've never created clothing (only recolored for my own uses), but it can't be that hard, right? Right? Off to look at tutorials! If I am successful, I shall share.

And you know I tried searching the WCIF forum, specifically, for "Amish"...Am I blind, or is the "search this forum" (as opposed to searching the entire site) function gone?

what I meant was, you may have children, but only 2 sims 2 start with.
many pinball machines are mechanical, rather than electrical. also is there a mod for no repo man?

iCad:

I've got a friend in college studying game design who wants a Sims night w/ me when she comes back to our home province for the summer - might be a while, but I'll ask her if she can try and edit a mesh if I get it for her: she's just finished a course in 3D design and development. That TSR set looks... yucky. It kinda looks like they just recoloured a white section onto a Maxis hair for the cap.

And no, you're not crazy. I've never been able to find a "search this forum" option other than the total site search thing - not particularly helpful, as my attempt ended with the two beard downloads, a lot download that I couldn't figure out the relationship to Amish with, and everybody with 'amish' in their username (a la "Camisha", etc.).

It's a drop-down option in the subheader bar in whatever forum you're viewing. Reading from left to right in Sims 2 WCIF:

Threads in Forum: Sims 2 WCIF - Forum Tools -Search this Forum

Or you can go to the advanced search (<-autolinked) options and just select the WCIF subforum in the the forums to search panel.