joandsarah77 just learned that her CC-free lots have the Super Duper Hug bug:
http://www.modthesims.info/journal....howentry&e=6707

It appears that the bug is carried via a controller on the lot. These lots were never occupied, just furnished. The Clean Installer doesn't show any CC at all included with the lot.

Some additional information:
http://www.leefish.nl/mybb/showthread.php?tid=4930
http://joandsarah.livejournal.com/85783.html

It would appear from the LeeFish thread that removing the furniture may be able to resolve this problem. This needs to be verified.

There is a temporary fix for the problem once it is occupied, but everything seems to indicate that a lot cannot be cleaned properly once infected (except possibly using the EA move-out logic which removes all objects from a lot):
However, these temporary solutions are not adequate. I am interested in finding a more permanent solution. Specifically, I would like to understand how to clean a lot so that it is safe to share with other people, without them risking becoming infected.

To achieve this, I would like to understand how this bug is transmitted through a CC-free lot. Unfortunately, BO doesn't seem to be saying anything that makes sense to me. I really want to understand how the Super Duper Hug piggybacks in a lot: the exact mechanism that is involved. If I can understand the mechanism, I may be able to add a check and fix to the Clean Installer, or to write a program which will clean all lots in a neighborhood. If anyone can explain this to me, I would really appreciate it.

I decided to open one of joandsarah77's infected lots and see what it contains. Immediately, I found the following objects in OBJT instance 0 [AKA MOBJT?] (on a lot which supposedly had no CC at all):
- Sim Manipulator Social
- Controller - TwoJeffs Visitor Controller
- Controller - Triplets and Quads Adjuster
- ijFinance - Lot Rights - Controller
- Surfing Interaction
- Interaction - Go Steady for Adults.
I'm sure that there are others; those were just the first few objects. These are clearly CC objects which have attached themselves to the lot, in spite of the fact that they are not included in the packaged lot.

I don't think BO was reading properly what I had said about my lots being cc free. Now my friend Esme and I are no programers or modders but we wonder if this super comes in two versions. She has it in one hood and not in another although according to BO it should infect every hood. Other things I've read seem to indicate once it's gone from your game it shouldn't go with lots, but it is still going with my lots. I uploaded a lot with just a box 'house' on it, no furniture and Dominie reports it still has the bug. Now Esme had another idea, that I should try again, but in a hood with no sims. The hood I used was new but did have a few sims. My next thought was to remove my sims 2 folder and let the game regenerate itself and try a lot from that.

I'd really like to understand this whole thing better and if we can possibly detect and get rid of it in lots before uploading them.

That is very interesting about that list that showed up Mootilda. I made sure that no hacks came with CI but there they still are.

I'm really happy you are looking at this as I feel you are one of the few people who might be able to figure it out.

I agree. BO's answers didn't seem to make any sense in the context of your problem, which may mean that there are two different bugs and he is only familiar with the other one.

I was surprised to see all of those CC controllers inside of your CC-free lot. Was the lot created with a full Downloads folder, which you removed before packaging the lot? If so, was the lot edited and saved after you removed the Downloads folder? If so, I'm surprised that the controllers remained on the lot.

I was thinking that it might be useful to write a program to list all of the objects (including invisible controllers) on the lot, so that we can understand exactly what's included in the lot package. That program would also help us to understand what is being removed during various tests, such as editing and saving the lot or running the EA move-out logic.

Note that Rufio's extended family mod doesn't actually contain a controller, just BHAVs. Your lot doesn't contain any BHAVs, which makes it very difficult to imagine how this bug is managing to infect your lot. Rufio's BHAVs may actually be replacements for an existing EA controller (needs research), but I'm still not clear how they could remain on a lot after the CC is removed.

The first thing that I'd like to know is how the bug is spread. It's encouraging that your friend has one hood which is not infected. I'm reluctant to install your lot until I can be sure that the bug can be contained, preferably in an AnyGame. I do have a system backup, but I don't want to risk infecting Riverside, which I'm helping marka93 get into an uploadable state.

As I see it, there are a number of ways that something like this might spread:
- The system registry or other system file.
- Game installation files.
- The neighborhood package.
- The individual lot package.

It's interesting that you mention sims, since I believe that sim package actually do contain BHAVs, unlike lot packages. That still doesn't explain how your lot could be infected, though.

Which lot are we talking about? The test lot that I put on the thread at leefish?

My download folder has always been in when I have uploaded lots. Normally I save to file, check a lot over with CI, save as a Rar and upload. I always play test a copy, not the uploaded lot.
I pulled my download folder a few days back to prove I didn't have the Debug and was quite shocked to see it there. The 3 fixes I have in place only seem to stop it showing in my game, but not stop it going with lots. I put on the other fix on the deadly vampire bite thread (second file) before I uploaded the test lot. That didn't help the problem of it going with my lot.

I first got the Hug about 2 years ago from a mod on here which has since been removed. I fixed that at the time with Dolphin's Control This Sim. I didn't see the bug when I pulled my folder last year to do a 50/50 search for some corrupt cc. I put on the extended family mod after that and when I pulled my folder a few days ago to prove I didn't have the hug, there it was. This has also made me think there are two versions of the hug. One seems to be fixed easily and the other not. Maybe because Dolphin's and the kiss check mod were based on an object? I know she says on her thread, post #44 that she fixed her mod by changing the fall back guid. Leefish told me that Rufios mod doesn't have an object and no guid.

I was using one of the Council Houses that I had already downloaded. I think that it was the green one.

It doesn't surprise me that the controllers are included in the lot when they are in your Downloads folder. My expectation is that they will disappear from the lot package if you remove your Downloads folder, then edit, save, and package your lot. Of course, we don't know whether the controllers have anything to do with the bug.

This is going to take a while to track down. At this point, I have no idea about how this bug could piggy-back inside of the lot package.

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It seems that no one understands how the Clean Installer works, so I'm going to try to explain it here.

The main thing to understand is that the Clean Installer does not change the lot package in any way at all. Specifically, the lot package is not "cleaned" of sims or CC.

Objects on a lot are different than objects in your Downloads or installation folders. Objects in your Downloads and installation folders contain generic information about the object, such as the meshes, textures and the BHAVs that it uses. Object packages contain the OBJD^wiki record and the wiki will show you what kind of information is stored.

Objects in the lot package are specific and do not duplicate the stuff that's in your Downloads folder. Instead, objects in the lot package contain a reference to the OBJD in your Downloads or installation folders, along with information about the object's placement on your lot, ownership of the object, etc. The lot package contains a number of OBJT^wiki records and the wiki will show you the kind of data that's stored.

So, these two things are completely different. If you remove an object from your Downloads folder, the game will notice that the object no longer exists when it tries to display the object, and will usually try to change any instances of that object on your lot, replacing them with the fallback object, or removing them completely. However, this only occurs if the lot is edited and saved after the object has been removed from Downloads. Otherwise, the reference to the object remains in the lot package.

When a lot is packaged, the lot package is shared as-is. That means that any objects on the lot will have a corresponding OBJT record in the lot package. As well, the game tries to figure out which objects from your Downloads folder are being used and includes those object packages in the resulting Sims2Pack.

A Sims2Pack is sort of like a zip or RAR file: it contains a number of different packages which can be separated out using an appropriate program like the BodyShop Installer or the Clean Installer. One of those packages is the lot package.

In the case of these controllers, the game is clearly not recognizing that these object packages from your Downloads folder need to be included in the Sims2Pack. However, the object references in the lot package remain intact. The game will not remove OBJT records (object references) during the packaging process.

The Clean Installer separates out the various packages and allows the user to choose which ones to install. When you check or uncheck a piece of CC, you are choosing whether or not to install the package containing the OBJD record. However, the Clean Installer does not change the lot package in any way, it just extracts the package and installs it in the appropriate location. That means that the OBJT records (object references) will not be removed from the lot package.

So, if you have an object installed in your Downloads folder and a reference to that object exists inside your lot package, you can be 100% sure that the reference will survive the packaging and installation processes, even if the object itself doesn't get installed.

I hope that made some sort of sense.

The game has never removed object references from a lot package while packaging a lot. The Clean Installer has never examined each object reference inside of a lot package to determine whether the object exists in the current save game. The Clean Installer has never removed object references from a lot package while installing a Sims2Pack. All that it does it give the user an opportunity to decide whether or not to install object packages that the game included in the Sims2Pack.

Note that Delphy's Download Organizer will not examine a lot package and list all of the object references either. All of these programs deal with object packages, not object references inside of lot packages.

At this time, I do not know of any utility which will examine a lot package, find all of the object references, list them out, and / or remove them.

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It sounds as if the normal Super Duper Hug bug is contained in an object package (OBJD), and that it can be removed by removing the object using the Clean Installer. That's what BO keeps saying in the LeeFish thread, although it is still not clear to me where the bug is stored on the original user's machine.

However, your lots seem to have a different problem. Somehow, the Super Duper Hug bug is imbedded in the lot package, rather than in the object package. At this time, we don't know where the bug is stored inside the lot package, so we don't know how to clean it.

Thank you, I don't fully understand all of that, but it does make sense.

I think he's starting to get that this is different.

I uploaded another test lot, this time a new hood with no sims,(except what comes with a new hood) but I'm thinking it will still contain the bug. BHAV's go across the whole game and won't be contained to a hood, right? What about removing my sims 2 folder and letting the game regenerate new folders? Or do these affect the installation files? In which case I guess even fresh files will have the bug. I think all my installation files are read only if that helps at all. When I checked my object package that time they all were, I think it's a feature on windows 7 64bit.

The Super Duper Hug is a Maxis object, just not one which is normally spawned, which I imagine is why it isn't showing up on your Clean Installer. The way it gets into your game is normally by downloading a piece of CC, normally a custom social or a custom controller, which was cloned from the SDHug. These are global, out-of-world objects, so they get spawned the first time a lot is booted up. So create a lot with that CC still installed, then either save the lot and remove the CC using Clean Installer or delete the CC and resave the existing lot. In the same way that the game replaces any missing in-world CC with the equivalent Maxis object it was originally cloned from, the game replaces the (now absent) CC social with the Maxis object it was originally cloned from.

Actually, I *did* read that, but it isn't relevant to the issue of certain mods hitching a ride with the lot, as far as I know. At leat *some* mods that do this, do not need for there to be any CC on the lot. So that's why I didn't go into that. It seemed irrelevant to me.

If at any time someone finds good cause to conclude that this assumption was wrong, I hope to hear about it, though. Because I too can be mistaken. There's enough evidence of that around at both the Asylum and Simbology. :ashamed:



Exactly! Normally, when stuff hitches a ride, the method I outlined should work. So, assuming the Super Duper Hug would also show itself somehow, I simply copied this method of cleaning up the lot. The only problem is, that I seldom DL lots - and the few that I have didn't have such issues - nor have I ever shared any. So I have never actually looked for this bug myself. I know that it is active in my game, but there is no chance of me infecting others, so I never bothered.

At present, I can't check either, because my PC is out of commission. I know that the bug is an evil one, and that it must hide somewhere, but I too have never uncovered its hiding place. I hope someone does, eventually, so we can really murder it. The original Hug itself, is a Maxis interaction, and thus it hides in the objects.package. But that isn't the culprit, really. So knowing where that is doesn't help us much...

Dominie here. *waves*

I still want to help here, but am unsure of how much help I really am as it's so uncertain if this bug is contained or not. Esme's test gives me hope.

Because of this uncertainty, I don't know if my test on jo's lot with no furniture was accurate or not. I emailed jo yesterday and said I was not giving up that her lots could still be cleaned and saved...as far as the bug. This morning I am wowed on what else Mootilda found.

Now, I did all my checking and what i thought was cleaning her lots of the bug in newly spawned games. But even if my playing game is infected..it's new, I just recently installed the game on a new pc, was starting over anyways.

So, I am willing to do more testing..anything I can do to help, but I not knowing if the bug is contained or not, makes me unsure of what kind of help I can be.

Please let me know if there is anything I can do, regardless. Like I said, I dont have much invested in my current installed game anyways.

OK. Here is what I understand to date:

At some point, the creator downloads a piece of CC with an OBJD which was cloned from (and has the fallback ID of) the EA Super Duper Hug controller. An OBJT for that controller (along with other associated records) is added to every lot as soon as it is created or edited in game. When a lot is packaged, the OBJT for the controller remains on the lot, regardless of whether the CC is included in the Sims2Pack or not. If the downloader installs the CC controller, then all of their lots will become infected by that CC. However, if the downloader does not install the CC controller, but just installs the lot itself, then the OBJT for the CC controller on the lot will fallback to the Super Duper Hug controller on that lot.

A creator may try to solve this problem by removing the CC controller from their Downloads folder before packaging the lot. This does not have the intended effect because the lot contains an OBJT which will fallback to the Super Duper Hug controller. The packaged lot will be infected in a way which is invisible to everyone, because there is no utility which looks at the OBJT records inside of a lot package; both the Clean Installer and Delphy's Download Organizer look at CC packages inside your Downloads folder.

I haven't examined any of the "fix" mods yet, but I assume that they iterate through the objects on a lot, looking for and removing the Super Duper Hug controller as the game runs. BO, can you verify that this is what your fix does?

Unfortunately, that is not adequate because there is an unknown mechanism whereby lots are reinfected even after the CC controller has been removed from the creator's computer. No one understands this mechanism, although we do not believe that the installation files in the Program Files folder are affected. (This can be checked by verifying that your installation files have not been modified since they were installed and / or patched.)

Note that a "fix" mod will not fix an unoccupied lot, and cannot guarantee that a lot does not contain the Super Duper Hug controller at any instant in time, since the lot may have become reinfected since the "fix" last occurred.

This implies to me that the Super Duper Hug is not as persistent as BO has suggested. As long as you delete all of your existing neighborhoods, lots, and sims, and possibly reinstall the game, you should be clean unless you manage to reinfect yourself by downloading infected CC (or possibly lots).

Most people may be reluctant to lose everything that they have, but lot creators may consider this to be an acceptable step. Note that the Super Duper Hug may infect any custom neighborhood and subhood templates that you have installed in your Program Files folder, but we assume that the shipped neighborhood templates are safe.

Because no one understands the mechanism whereby the Super Duper Hug spreads, I am reluctant to infect myself, even within an isolated AnyGame. It would be wonderful if someone could determine that mechanism, but I'm not volunteering. If we can verify that an AnyGame can be safely isolated, then I am more willing to do this research.

However, the Clean Installer may be able to be modified to do what the "fix" mods do; that is: to look through all of the OBJT records within a lot and remove or replace the Super Duper Hug, and known CC controllers which fallback to the Super Duper Hug.

Note that we do not yet understand how to remove an object from a lot, outside of the game. Object references are not isolated to the OBJT record, but are spread through a number of different records, including the MOBJT, OBJT, XOBJ, and 3ARY. Therefore, this is not a simple fix, but will take some amount of research to accomplish.

Even if the Clean Installer cannot remove the Super Duper Hug, it should be relatively quick to have the Clean Installer check all OBJT records within a lot package and warn the user if the Super Duper Hug is found, giving the user an option to back out of the install.

Please let me know if this explanation is incorrect in any way, or if it is missing a vital component.

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One more thing: I don't know what people are doing to these lots before uploading to Box and sharing the links in the LeeFish thread, but if my understanding is correct, there is no way to clean these lots, which means that the lots being shared are probably still infected.

Thank you Mootilda for that info. I was repackaging these lots in a game with the fix when they showed no more debug, retesting in a spawn game, which when showed no more Debug with two sims placed on the lot , thinking they were clean. Only three were done so far..and I am going to edit they probably aren't.

Since I am already infected, if I can help verify for AGS, just let me know how you would like me to do that.

This makes me feel very nervous about downloading any lots now

You are correct to some extent. Every second (or sim minute) the fix checks if there's a controller present whose GUID is equal to the Super Hug's fallback. If so, it is destroyed. You may now wonder why this is repeated every second… That's because the controller will be recreated by some background process (probably a part of the social plugins interface) every time some sim needs to scan its menu for a new interaction to perform, either autonomously or per the player's command. If that recreation could be prevented somehow, that would really fix the issue without the need to repair it every second.

Yes, if you completely start over from scratch, you can get rid of the bug. But it means you must permanently abandon your old hoods and lots. The problem is that it's so easy to get infected again! So Normally I just advise people to get the fix, and not worry about it anymore. I realize that this can be an issue when you want to share lots, though.

I hope this helps, Mootilda?

Lee, I understand! This wouldn't bother me to download other peoples lots to play in my playing game, I would just have the fix and play...wouldn't bother me. I am with Bo on that. What I am hoping for somehow is for there to be a way to build lots to share that I can honestly say are uninfected for those who would be bothered.

Dominie I'm glad you mentioned the email as I get a lot of email from teaching and other groups and tend to scan down quickly. It could have easily been tossed.

So the lots that you cleaned might not be clean? I was wondering what was happening there.

I put up another test lot on the leefish thread if someone wants to take a look at it.

I'm looking into AGS to see if I can upload a clean test lot this way. I have a thread up at leefish about that as well because i need to make sure it's okay with my game being on D drive and some other things.

I believe if you have the fix in place before downloading a lot or a social hack there is no risk of getting the hug. Is that correct? That's what I posted on my LJ.

While I was aware that the Super Duper Hug bug existed, I never really understood why it was such a problem. Now, I believe that I'm getting a handle on the problem. The "fix" mods are wonderful, but won't prevent people from passing on the infection by sharing lots. This is why I would like to try to implement a couple of additional fixes:

1) A program (clean installer?) which can tell you whether any of your lots are infected. I believe that we understand how to do this, so it's mostly grunt work.

2) A program (clean installer?) which can remove the infection from lot, especially one which is going to be shared. This will require some research to ensure that we can remove all references to the Super Duper Hug controller without corrupting the lot. It may actually be easier to set the controller GUID to an invalid GUID with an invalid fallback GUID, then let the game delete the object itself.

Another option may be to write a global mod which will delete the Super Duper Hug controller from a lot during the packaging process.

3) A fix so that reinfection will not occur after your system has been cleaned. This is pie-in-the-sky right now. I'm concerned about even doing the research because of the risk of infection. However, from what BO says, it sounds like there is a flag somewhere which decides whether to add the Super Duper Hug controller to every lot. If we can determine where that flag is, it may be a fairly simple matter to turn the flag off.

I may decide to install the game on a separate computer which I won't mind infecting, just so that we can try to track this down.

No, I don't believe that's true. You can still get infected, but you won't see the symptoms as long as you have the fix in place. The most important thing is that you can become infected and can pass that infection on to other people through your lots. The fix will suppress the symptoms as long as it is installed. However, the fix cannot delete the controller from an unoccupied lot before that lot is packaged.

We can't cure you 100% because we do not understand the mechanism whereby the game decides that all lots should have the Super Duper Hug controller installed on them. Once you are infected, the game will continually add the controller to every lot that you touch. We do not understand how to stop the game from doing this.

My hope is that this can be isolated using the AnyGame Starter. If you have not used the AGS before, you might want to backup your registry before installing the AGS, especially if you have any collection packs or downloaded games. A backup can never hurt, and might help.

The problem started when people started making interactions to overwrite the Debug Hug. Once you install such a mod, and later remove it again, you get the infection. Yes, you read that right: the installation of such a mod is not the problem. REMOVING the mod is what causes the bug! Because THAT is where the fallback comes in action to replace the missing mod. And the fallback is in fact the GUID of the Debug Hug itself...

aliasthepal's Kiss Cheek interaction is one mod that does this, but I have also encountered Vampire Kiss & Bite mods built on the same GUID, and I wouldn't be surprised if other mods like that existed as well.

I myself made and published a Kiss Cheek mod, too. However, I made it in a safe way, so it doesn't cause this problem at all. And it's really very simple: just make sure that the Fallback GUID of the new interaction reads 0x00000000, and you're safe.

But alas, when I made my version of the mod, a lot of people already had the bug, and lived with several versions of the Fix for it.

Mootilda, I think there may indeed be a valid method among the options you mention for dealing with this issue. I *would* though, add another option to your list:

- Have a program (clean installer?) replace the Debug Hug GUID in lots by 0x00000000 !!!
This would be simple and effective and it wouldn't even change the file size of the lot!

Edit to add: there is a reason why this Hug's name starts with *Debug. When you play in Debug mode (boolprop testingcheatsenabled true), this Hug will also show up in menus! THIS specific instance of the Hug is NOT a bug. Only when you see this Hug while playing with cheats DISabled, you have a problem.

I hope it's OK to chime in here, even though I'm not actually a modder. What I am is interested in this particular bug, systematic, and related to an epidemiologist (someone who studies the spread of diseases). I helped Jo test which hack was causing the Hug, and I detailed my results on Leefish here, in case they are helpful.

I think there are two varieties of Hug out there, one that can be cured by Dolphin's Control This Sim and one that can't. The second one is the one that Jo appears to have, and I'm calling it the Tenacious!Hug or TH.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit today, and I've thought of some things that it seems like it would be useful to test. I'll detail what I came up with and what I can do, and maybe some more experienced people can give me some feedback on what would be most helpful, what they've already tried, and what's a dead end.

I think the top priority is to figure out how the TH spreads. Not how you contract it -- that's from downloading a bad hack or a lot made in a game with that hack. Not the precise mechanism that transmits it -- Mootilda seems to have a handle on that. What I mean is questions like these.

Does the TH spread between houses if you don't have the in-laws hack in, only the TH picked up from pulling the hack? Does it spread between neighborhoods in the same set of conditions? Does it make a difference if the "objects" package (where Mrs. Crumplebottom and the Grim Reaper live) is locked/read-only or unlocked? Does it make a difference if you have in hacks that suppress or kill the regular Hug? I can test most of this by playing the Calientes and the Dreamers in Pleasantview for a little bit and seeing if they develop the TH. Since only the Brokes currently have the TH in Pleasantview, that will show if it spreads within a 'hood. I can also play the Viejos and the Roths in Riverblossom Hills to see if it shows up there. That will show if it spreads between 'hoods. My objects package is read-only, and I would prefer not to change that, but if some brave soul tries it and gets different results than I do, then we know that it modifies something universal.

Does it spread between houses/hoods with no hack in after an infected lot is installed? Does the mere presence of an infected lot in the bin cause the TH, or do you have to place the lot? If you have to place the lot, does deleting a never-placed lot from the bin prevent the TH? Does it make a difference if the objects package is locked or unlocked? I can't test this currently because all the lots known to be infected are built with a game configuration I don't have. I have all EPs up to BV, plus FFS and GLS.

Can the TH piggyback on a lot built in a 'hood that has no sims at all, not even townies? (Of course, there are certain character files, that come with a 'hood even if you use empty templates, but with no character files other than those.) What about a lot built in a 'hood that only had the automatic townies, but that has no playable Sims and that has never been played? Theoretically I could test this, but it might be easier for someone who is already infected to try.

What happens if you put an infected lot in a 'hood that already has the in-laws hack in it? Does the TH show up anyway? (That could mean that something gets broken in the packaging process.)

Can the TH be passed secondarily? That is, if you take an infected lot, put it in a 'hood that doesn't have the TH, package a different lot from that same 'hood and put it in a new clean 'hood, is the second lot also infected?

If you have picked up the TH, does regenerating your EA Games folder get rid of it? I can test this.

Does AGS keep the TH from spreading if you build in an AGS setup that doesn't have the hack? How about an AGS setup without the hack, but with an infected lot? How about an AGS setup with neither the hack nor an infected lot, but some of your other setups have one or both? I cannot test this because AGS is not Mac-compatible.


Sorry for the wall of text. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes here.

Having read this I also get a tad nervous. I know I've seen super duper hug in menus, but I think I may have had debug mode active. Now, this may be an annoying question, but what happens exactly? I get that it shows up in menus and should not be there, but how it is harmful? I tried to follow the link to fixes by esme in a different thread, and got thoroughly confused when I was faced with stuff about vampires. What?

I would happily volunteer my laptop for tests, as it has no hoods on it and doesn't have Sims installed. I wouldn't know what to do, but if anyone wants tests run and can tell me what to do, I can probably do them for you. Lot sharing safety is something I've gotten interested in, and I'd like to contribute in any way I can.

Don't panic! The Super Duper Hug is an artifact left behind by a poorly-made social hack. It will not break your game or corrupt your 'hood. However, it is massively annoying: It will make your sims hug each other ALL THE TIME, even if you tell them not to. Basically, it's better not pass it along to anyone if it can be avoided.

One of the social hacks that used to cause the Hug was a social hack having to do with vampires (which is why you found a thread about vampires). The person who made that hack fixed the original hack, and also created a hack that will suppress the Hug so that it doesn't show up anymore. Dolphin's Control This Sim includes a fix that (I believe) will actually make the Hug go away for good. BoilingOil's hack also suppresses the Hug. The vampire fix and BoilingOil's hack will both allow the Hug to come back if you remove them from your Downloads folder, but as long as they're in there, you won't see it.

What I'm calling the Tenacious!Hug comes from a different hack, and Dolphin's Control This Sim will not get rid of it. That's the version that is coming along for the ride in lots.

Do you have a Windows computer or a Mac? That would help me figure out which of my proposed tests you might be able to run. Not that I'm in charge or anything! (hides)

This is what I was doing each time I was testing a lot. I kept calling it "spawning a new game". I think i like regenerating the EA Games folder better, lol. Anyways, when I thought I had cleaned a lot, I would do this again to test the lot with no download folder, and the bug wasn't showing when I would throw in a couple of sims to interact.

It was failing for me with one fix..but worked out this way with another.

With the deadly neck bit thread, you can use the second file. The creator added the fix to his/her deadly vampire neck bite mod or you can just grab the plain fix which is the file underneath.

It's harmful in that if you upload lots you are giving it to other people and if they don't know what it is or how to fix it they are left with an annoying action that they in turn need to fix. if they have certain mods in place they may never even know they have it. I found out I was spreading it when a downloader put one of my cc free lots into her new installed with no hacks game. It isn't game breaking like making Grim selectable or hood corrupting like deleting sims, you can simply suppress it with a fix.

I started all this because I hate the thought of infecting peoples games. I want clean lots to share. If you never share lots and keep a fix in your own game then it may never be a bother.

What it sounds like to me is that when you regenerated your EA Games folder and tested it with new Sims, no downloads, and no infected lot, you didn't have the TH. Am I understanding that correctly?

And then when you placed an infected lot in the 'hood that didn't used to have the TH, it showed up. Is that also right?

Which fix worked for you? Which didn't?

Right.

For jo's lots, dolphin26s didnt work, but the LBF Remove Social fix did. I was paranoid when the lots passed the test, so I regenerated a second time and they passed again.

Edit: I think this might be helpful in determining if it is isolated..maybe can be. I am really concerned with that list Mootilda found..how cc is actually packaging in some way, attaching to lots, and not being seen in the clean installer.

This is promising! It sounds like we now have a way to safely test how the TH spreads without fear of permanent corruption. If someone backs up all their 'hoods and other important stuff (or even their whole EA Games folder) before deliberately infecting their game, they will not have to reinstall to get rid of it. That also suggests that the TH doesn't affect any universal files. Is your "objects" file (if that's the right term?) locked/read-only?

I will try the LBF fix in my game and see what results I get.